Interview with Tomislav Kuternik from Defiant

What's up everyone and welcome to Metal Detector. Today we're speaking with Tomislav Kuternik, vocalist from Defiant. This band has built a reputation for their powerful songs, sharp rips, uncompromising spirit in the underwater scene. With the latest work pushing the boundaries even further, we're going to dive into the band's journey, creative vision, what's going next, and whatever uh happens in the way.

Tomislav, it's an honor to have you here with us today. Let's go straight forward with the questions. And um how is the metal scene different when you perform abroad compared to at home?

Well, the last couple of years actually the scene in Croatia became a bit I'll say better in a way. Um but again a lot of abroad countries like uh Serbia, Romania, even Hungary at uh at like last few years uh is getting better. So I think the the the croatian scene is as strong as like the east Eastern European folks, you know. But I mean you can you can see you can actually see it from like a maybe um study in sociology you know but I think every country that we played in has it own ups and downs you know especially when you playing in your local scene a bit a bit I think it's bit bit more pressure because the guys knew you you know there's very little mystery when you play in Romania when you're playing in a foreign country I mean that I think that every band knows was this when you play somewhere else, you're mysterious, you know, they don't know you and you're playing a bit of a role in there as a vocalist, as as a guitarist, you know. So sometimes when you play in Romania, some people get scared of you because you're that guy from, you know, for screaming and, you know, you're from that band, you know. So when you're playing local scene, you know, your friends are in the audience and they're yelling at some stupid shit you know. So it can be a bit funny but you know it's an ups and downs you know in like they say it's part of the gig you know

Tell me before Defiant you were part of other projects like Rainkaos, Voidhammer, Chemical exposure um how did those experience shaped the musician you are today?

Uh well all those pre-bands and Metuzalem as well. I played in for like a not a full year. I pretty much recorded one album with them and half of the band split off because of because the bass player was an asshole, Uh but uh every band I mean Rainkaos formed like in 2006 2007 around that. So I was like 16 and we made every every mistake possible in the book. Every mistake possible. and uh that split up and um became when I went to college I joined Voidhammer and uh after college I joined Chemical Exposure uh well every band was a learning lesson you know every band was a learning lesson what to do what not to do you know how to behave as a vocalist how to behave as a frontman per se and u you know stuff like that you know every every step was like a learning experience you know And yeah, I was happy to be in in all those event. U nevertheless, the circumstances and all the hiccups and problems and you know the human factor. I mean that was the biggest learning experience how to deal with people because a lot of people forget uh sometimes you you know your band members better than their wives you know because you're traveling together you know you have like five or six hour drive you know from point A to to point B to the next gig you know sometimes you know you know how your drummer farts pretty much you know exactly how your drummer smells your uh you know it's pretty much like a marriage light version you know so to find I mean the biggest the biggest learning experience is how to deal with people you know it's not just playing good is is actually how to deal with people how to deal with a lot of circumstances and a lot of difficulties you know so it's all it's all learning I'm still learning actually so yeah we're still may on the on on the sixth band I will learn my [ __ ] Who knows?

All right. Uh, you joined the Defiant in 2017 right at a point for the band sound that was like switching. How was that main vision when you first became part of the group?

Uh, well actually my first gigs with Defiant were uh actually 2016 in we did two two festivals in Romania. Well, the band actually had pretty much a formula what to do. That was during their more spiritual illness album. There was a third album which they switched up gears a bit uh abandoned their melodic technical death metal, you know, it became more of a straightforward death metal. But I think on every album define sounds a bit different. Uh well, it was just that timing that Chris and I, the leader of the band who formed the band in 2005, I think, um already had an idea what the final should now sound like. And we pretty much in agreement since I think since day one, you know, I mean, uh two of us play now together like almost say 9 years. So we pretty much from day one knew what we want from uh Defiant, you know. So so we're pretty much like an old couple, you know.

All right. Uh Defiant has evolved from melodic death metal into a darker, more black and death style. How do you see this evolution?

Uh natural. Very very natural. I think the first sound of the first album was pretty much a compromise since the first lineup was kind of like musically all over the place. You know, the drummer was was listening to punk. Uh the guitarist and vocalist listened to more like a churn of bottom more like, you know, back in the day when the chicks were crazy about Alexa, so he wanted to do that. Uh Chris wanted Death Metal from day one pretty much. But so that sound was pretty much like a compromise to uh for the lineup to stay uh stable, you know. So the first album was more like a let's just stay together and we will do something else after this one. So of course the the first lineup after the first album u dissolved. So Chris had more say, you know, in the in in the sound. But I think evolution wise, I think since since the second album was pretty much a reflection about who was in the band, you know, Chris is the leader of the band, but he leaves a lot of room for us to do our stuff. You know, since I joined the find, I never wanted to emulate any other vocalist. I wanted to do me and just work on my voice you know and my lyrics. So there was no there was no like you have to do this, you have to write about this and you know uh the basic of the the fight is still there but I think uh every member who was in the band uh had their leisure to do whatever they wanted. you know, on Vanguards of Misol EP, we have a bass player who played on fretless bass and and we just told him, listen, if you want to do uh baselines like uh like atheist or that on sound perseverance, go for it, you know, and he did that. So that so Vanguard says has has a fretless base because we had a member who who does that. So uh it's evolution by human nature, I think. So it it it to me to me it fits, you know, every uh every uh band member has a freedom to express himself. You know, we're not telling no one to do this or to do that, you know. So it works. It's it it should be natural.

Perfect. you write lyrics. What inspires you the most when you are creating?

Uh well the last 10 years are mostly documentaries are mostly books on on a lot of I'll say deep subjects you know on human nature on um uh like for example on the EP Vanguards of Misrule there's a track called u explosion of the triumphant beast uh which is actually a book from Giordano Bruno who is uh uh they they call he they say he's a cultist, a religious pantist or whatever, but he was a rebel, you know. He was a rebel. He was studying about astrology way before I mean way before Galileo Galilei. He was like uh right after uh Nicola Copernic, you know. So I was researching him and I stumbled upon uh the title of that book. It was like okay this sounds like something this this this is growing into something and uh it was very natural to write actually a song about him because I mean yeah I think mostly rebels or people who went against the grain kind of inspires you in a way. I mean the band is called Defiant so it it goes both ways you know. So uh but yeah mostly the boo subjects some hard subjects that u not a lot of bands tend to write about you know we we're never going to write about you know I don't know war or this or that because you know Marik and did that so I see very little reason to rehash that and even attempt to write that even like one of my favorite persons I mean whoever you know googles us uh they will say I have like t-shirt from Vlatvish Dracula, right? But I will never attempt to to write about him because Marduk did that. So why why even attempt to rehash it? I'll rather write something that uh no bands tend to write about, you know, especially when you have like half a million metal bands, you know, you have to find a subject, a title that, you know, fans will think, hey, this this is new, you know. So I mean uh that was that's one of my uh criteria when I think about think about the title or whatever I I immediately uh Google it on metal archives to see if any other band did that and if I see nobody there is no title ever of a metal band like this I'm like yes we're moving forward you know so I'm I I see I see very little um I don't know logic to repeat someone else's work or someone else's topic or someone else's I I'll not say style but you know you have so many bands and there's so many many bands that that sound like I don't know Behemoth Deicide or something like that or even Dissection and I was like yeah this sounds good but this sounds like a band that was that played the same shit 20 years ago so I I I I know I I sound very uh cruel But that's the that's the reality of it. You know, there there's something to there's some there are some bands to do tributes and that that's fine. But metal should be something new. Metal should be always be something exciting and not follow any kind of rules or you know so

got it. Uh what does Oh Mammon Mantra, you had guest musicians like Tony Dolan from Venom Inc. How that collaboration come about?

Well, I met him uh 2019 at Vakan. I went as a journalist. I also spent sometimes do as a journalist and interviewer uh review albums that that's why I talk so much shit about this this genre it goes with the you know with the road. Uh I met him in 2018. I interviewed him uh along with Tom Warrior from from Celtic Frost and Triptykon and Johnny Hedlund from Unleash. So anybody who knew Tony Dolan, if you speak to him, you're going to speak to him through the next two hours because guy loves to talk. But he is a darling. He is a very friendly person and it was a joy to to meet him. Uh so the interview lasted around an hour and we talked for for another hour I think he couldn't stop talking seriously. Uh but it was a great guy. uh and um we went through a lot of topics you know and one of topics was uh that he was asked by some bands from I think it was South America or something like that some underground bands I think um to be a guest vocalist on their albums and all of that but they asked him to you know scream or growl whatever and he bluntly said like I don't do that you know I'm too old for to actually learn this shit new you know so and I just basically asked him if he want to do his kind of vocals on our album and you know he said yes. Uh so I sent him the song which is Lord of the Opening. uh he uh he loved it and like in a week he uh he done he done his vocals and I think and 15 15 yearear-old me will be very happy to knew this you know since I was I'm still a big fan of Venom and Venom Inc you know and a big fan of primeval albums or actually the his era during Venom and yeah he's a cool guy and we still talk so it's it's it's one of those uh uh meteor idols you So was cool and you know it in in a way it's an honor to have him actually even to think that um one of your I'll say heroes are singing your your uh lyrics is beyond cool. So yes I almost skipped one question. I was checking here.

Uh, Insurrection Icon marked your first album with Defiant. What do you remember the most about recording it?

A lot of stress. A lot of stress and a lot of beers because we were in Czech Republic and every beer you found in Czech Republic. It's awesome and very cheap which which is a good and a bad thing as well because we have maybe 3 days to record an album and that was very stressful and that was very stressful and u yeah besides that uh we had fun. We had fun because Honopak our producer and uh he was the owner of his studio uh Hell Sound I think and he recorded a lot of great bands. the the the stony he even uh mixed and played drums on Nargarot's uh album which is called u uh when Burzum killed Mayhem which is for us like it's is it's the same place dude you know it was that was very strange but very fun and Jose Jose is a great guy but yeah we had very little time to actually improvise or do a revision Especially when you do vocals. I I think I screamed for like 6 hours straight to do the vocals, you know, and uh that that's not the most um you know best environment to do the vocals, you know, because this an organ. It's not like instrument. You have just just, you know, you change strings and you're good as new, you know. You have to rest. you have to, you know, drink a lot of tea and stuff like that. Uh, so yeah, actually to be perfectly honest, if I can, I will change like 35% of the vocals on on Icon definitely because if if you compare this to Mammon Mantra which we had like time for revisions and every detail was structured, you know. So uh so so you had time in on the post-prouction to revise some vocals and uh change this or add that or remove that on icon was very much like next song, next song, next song, next song. So it it had very little time to think about it. You just go with it. And uh I'm happy with the album uh the despite the the circumstances. But yeah, I always see some moments like uh that's not the the best moment, you know, for the for the vocals or whatever, you know. So, but I'm still happy with it. So, yeah, a baptism by fire pretty much.

And what does Mammon Mantra represent for you personally compared to earlier releases?

That's a lot. uh Mammon Mantra as a concept I had in my mind even during Rainkaos days so that's a lot of time that's a lot of time to to think about it because uh Mammon Mantra was I mean to go through the meaning of mammon mantra mammon is if you uh read the dictionary of demons or dictionary infernal in French uh was the demon or god of money. Actually the term of money actually came from his name mammon money. So he was the god of greed and um that was something that when when you're like 15 years old and you're discovering how the banks work or how the world works, how wars are uh orchestrated, how you know politicians are orchestrated, how the music business is orchestrated as well. You kind of see the patterns and those patterns are very disturbing you know. So that concept was with me for a good I'll say a good decade. And uh I was just waiting for the right time to present Chris the the concept and he was you know he he was happy with it. I think Mammon Mantra is the closest thing to a concept album, you know, but not like like a King Diamond album that every song is a chapter in the book, you know, but um every song is kind of interconnected, you know, even even the the intro uh Ipse Venit actually means uh uh his time has come, you know, or Dajjal Zyklon Dajjal is like the demon demon of the of the desert and he kind of um announces the new god you know and his time actually comes when there's famine there is wars and there is you know lot of strange stuff happening and I I remember writing Dajjal Zyklon co which is yeah yeah and of course when I wrote mammon um as a as a as a concept that I mean the world was fucked up and when we released the album this year, the world is even more fucked up. It's getting more fucked up as we speak, you know. So, I don't think that this is one of those albums that's going to age a lot, you know, because you can you can view the album from a ultist point of view, from a uh site society point of view or whatever. I think it it talks about us in a way, you know, because like they say in the Bible, you you can't serve God and Mammon at at the same time. But we see, you know, especially in America, you know, when you see the pastors and the politicians and the Republicans and I mean, it's I think it's very upto-date the concept. I think in a way it it was scary because we had we planned recording the album in something like u 2021 uh 2022 when covid started. So we put it on the on the back burner so we had a time to reflect how the album how the album sounds because it was still like in a demo phase but the lyrics were done and I remember when Chris and I was um revisiting the album to record it. I was like this is scary like you're you're almost like this this is still I mean when I was I was researching the lyrics and all that like this is some scary shit you know. I'm I'm a bit scared of this album, you know, because it's it's it's even more up to-date than was like five years ago, you know. So, uh yeah, it was very very different recording after insurrection icon. Actually, Vanguard's EP was recorded as a uh I will say rest from Mammon because Mammon was so planned, so rehearsed, you know, every layer was planned out, you know, while Vanguards of Misrule was pretty much like um you know, let's see what happens as and we we always talked about doing EP doing a bit of like a uh less I'll say less paperwork, less planning, less uh funding ourselves. So, and less pressure as well. You know, everybody can, you know, record, you know, five tracks and plus one cover and here you go, you know. So, less less less expectations, you know. So, so when you do an album, of course you have to plan out and uh deal with the labels, which is another pain in the ass, you know, which you know, even even today, I mean, the the music business uh today is dreadful, you know, especially for us who would just want to play the play our shit Now we have to deal with business, which is like bane of all music, I think. Right. It's still I think mantra is still actually connected to the music business as well, you know, especially when you have to deal with money and all that shit which you know kills the spirit of it I think.

Okay. And what has been your most um memorable concert outside Croatia?

Uh I will say 89% of gigs that we did in Romania because uh anybody who asked me that question I'll say uh Romania is almost like a our Europeans's version of South America. If you're good you can be a band that lasts 20 years, two years, two days, just got out of the garage, whatever. If you're good, they're going to love you. They're going to, you know, they're going to put their hearts, you know, they're going to headbang you. They're going to mosh pit for you. They're going to do everything for you. So, and they're very friendly. They're very friendly. Their English is not that good, but you know, uh besides that, uh they're a great audience to have them, you know. So, basically, we are a lot we we we love playing there, you know. and Serbia as well. And uh Hungary actually uh surprised me. The last gig we did was in Hungary like the last weekend. So that was cool too in pitch. But yeah, uh Romania is a place to be. Especially especially if if they like you, they're going to go crazy.

Awesome. If you could collaborate with any musician or band, past or present, uh who will be in why?

Oh boy. Uh I don't know. David Bowie maybe if he if we can resurrect him. Yeah. Uh but uh yeah, uh that'll be that'll be very cool. Uh but I don't know. Um, I actually actually already have a wish list of uh musicians that we want to guest on on the next album. So, it's nothing crazy, but there are some vocalists that I really like. And uh I kind I plan to to ask them. And I think some some bands actually some people are going to get surprised and of course is is super early, but I have them in mind, you know. So, uh, we'll see. I don't I mean, if I can ask any person, live person to be a, um, guest on our album is definitely Daniel Rostén from Marduk and Funeral Mist. I think I he's my number one inspiration for vocals because he uses his voice almost as a weapon. you know, every every track he does or was it Marduk or Funeral Mist, he does it differently. But again, if I ask him to do guest vocal guest vocals on on us, I'll I'll probably tell him I'll probably tell him like, "Do the whole album because you're you're so much better than me, you know." So, uh yeah, uh he he will be my bucket list, but I know I know that's not going to happen ever. So, I pretty much scaled down. And what's these guys I have in mind are also very very great you know but time will help you know. So yes

and what can fans expect for next from Defiant in 2025 and beyond?

Uh we're going to change the set list a bit and add some other changes uh in the band uh about the band and uh yeah we're going to promote Mammon Mantra during the whole next year. We're not gonna stop with this because this this this one this this this album I personally always wanted to record, you know. Uh it's I can stand behind this album by every second every second of it. And there there is no I'll say uh place in the album that I'll say, "Oh, maybe we could have re-recorded it or whatever." No, I'm happy with every second of the album. So, we're going to push this album as as much as we can till uh till the wheels fall off and a mile more. So, yeah, we're going we're going to uh promote this one a lot. So, uh there will be more gigs, more videos. We're just uh in a process of mixing a new video for the album and we'll probably do one more. So, we're not done with it. especially uh now we're going to now we're going to have one more gig in Zagreb and we're going to take a a little break during uh during the the holidays and next year January we're going to continue awesome I have a last question uh book or movie or non-metal artist would you suggest to metal detector uh fans book or movie. Yeah. Or song, artist, nonmetal. Uh on movies, I will recommend uh Angel Heart. That's that's an old movie with Mickey and Robert De Niro filmed in in the 80s. It's like one one of those few movies that combine uh detective neon noir with a horror. It's very underrated movie. uh music I would recommend uh Selbts which is from uh Venezuela and any book from Giordano Bruno I think because he he was very ahead of his time and his uh his style of writing is very for a religious person his writing is very much I don't give a fuck style so it's very It's very cool to write. It's very cool to read something from you know uh middle century and just you know shit on every stupid people like uh so yeah those those three things that come in mind. So yeah.

Perfect. Thank you so much for uh partic this interview. It was really nice to have you uh with us today. Uh, I hope you uh can come to the USA. We like to hear you and to see you and assist to one of your shows.

So, yeah, wish me the best. If if they pay us, that will be cool. Yeah, because visas and shit and costumes, you know, and all that. So, yeah, that's the reality of of the scene. But, yeah, we'll see. I'm game for it. Yes, if the opportunity arises. So, yeah.

Awesome. Cool. All right. Thank you so much.