Interview with Jorge Mackenzie of Neurosis (Colombia) & 38 years of Thrash Metal

When extreme metal speaks, it speaks with history, passion, and raw intensity. This week on Metal Detector, we sit down with Jorge Mackenzie, one of Colombia’s metal pioneers and the driving force behind Neurosis, a band that has been shaping the South American metal scene since 1987. From hand-made cassette demos to legendary albums like Verdun 1916 and Karma, Jorge takes us through decades of relentless creativity, the evolution of Colombian metal, and the unforgettable live shows that cemented Neurosis as a powerhouse in extreme music.

In this candid conversation, we dive into festival triumphs, the challenges of recording and touring in a growing metal scene, and the philosophy behind building a band that is both serious and true to its roots. Whether you’ve followed Neurosis since the early days or are discovering their legacy for the first time, Jorge’s insights reveal the heart and discipline behind a career that spans almost 40 years.

Watch the full interview and read the story behind the music, a journey through sound, sacrifice, and the unbreakable spirit of metal.

Andrea: Good morning, afternoon, or evening to all the Metal Detector fans who follow us and always watch our videos and interviews. My name is Andrea Net.

Uh, today on Metal Detector we have the honor of speaking with one of the pioneers of Extreme Metal in Colombia. We're talking about Jorge Mackenzie from Neurosis, a band that since 1987 has paved the way in a scene that was barely emerging with more than 35 years of history, fundamental albums, reissues, live performances, a legacy that has transcended borders. Neurosis remains an obligatory reference for South American thrash and metal. Thank you very much for accepting this interview, Jorge. How are you? Nice to meet you.

Jorge: Yes. How are you, Andrea? No, well, thank you very much for the invitation. Really, it's an honor for me to be here on Metal Detector.

Well, as I was saying, off the mics, well, a little freer, since last weekend we were playing in Pereira at the Eje Convivencia Rock festival, where it was amazing, it went really well, eh, but anyway, making all the plans for between now and the end of the year, everything went very well.

Andrea: Oh, ok, I was going to ask you specifically how the International Convivencia Eje Rock Festival was. Uh, is it something you do annually? Is this the first time I've heard about this festival?

Jorge: Yes, no, there have been several editions, I don't know exactly how many, eh, but this has been the biggest edition, eh. Yes. Uh, it lasted two days, it was last Friday, Friday the 22nd and Saturday the 23rd. Uh, and well, uh, well, as the name suggests, international, well, there were some bands from Mexico, from the United States, eh, more eh, Colombian bands, right? Of all genres, I mean, not just metal, eh, there was Ska, there was hardcore, eh, and well, eh, metal, rock and roll. So, nothing, this year's production was gigantic, really it was.

And I was very, very pleasantly surprised, obviously, eh, of course, by the stage, how big it was, the set-up, the sound, and the organization, right? The organization, the treatment of the bands, all the facilities, let's say, that they gave us, eh, the exposure, let's say we had, right? It was fantastic. It was fantastic.

It was truly an honor for us to have participated in this edition, eh, and nothing, fortunately we had the support of the entire audience. We played at a prime time slot on Saturday at around 8 at night, and wow, it was packed. Uh, we played all the songs we had planned, since it's the 30th anniversary of the release of de Verdún, so we only played songs from de Verdún. We played the entire album, except for two songs, so practically everything, right? And nothing, the audience loved it, the audience loved it. You can see the comments there on social media, so uh, nothing, uh, well, we came back very, very happy, let's say, from this show and having been able to participate in this important festival.

Andrea: Okay. Neurosis was born in '87 in Bogotá. What do you remember from those early years and how you consolidated your sound?

Jorge: Well, imagine that, eh, I have to dig deep into my brain, let's say, to remember, because when I started the band I was 17 years old and I'm 55 right now, so it's practically my entire life I've dedicated to this musical project, which, well, well, and not only did I start there, I came from Darkness and I was already a bassist six months before forming Neurosis, no, with Francisco Nieto, who at that time was the guitarist of La Pestilencia and well, later on, who was then the one on La Derecha. Uh, and well, what do I remember? No, nothing, well, the conditions, right? The conditions, let's say, of that time that were totally different from today, eh, there were no rehearsal rooms, so we had to rehearse in someone's house, the police always came because of the noise, etc. Uh, the equipment wasn't adequate for playing metal. So, it was up to us to try and explore different things, let's say, to achieve the best possible sound. There were no sound engineers. The sound engineers, let's say, that were around were salsa engineers. Uh, well, I had no idea, obviously, about this genre. I mean, everything was very different. Everything was very, very different, right? Imagine if today there are bands and musicians, obviously, let's say, who complain about the conditions, right? Well, thank goodness they didn't live through that era, right? Because otherwise they would have committed suicide.

But nothing, I've managed to adapt to the different changes of the era, right? Then obviously years later, more or less 20 years later, adapting to the whole internet thing, etc., etc., which is something that not all bands, let's say, have survived, right? Many bands, well, they stayed there on the road, etc. Many of them have returned now and, uh, add up the years of inactivity, we reached, we've said we've been around for 40 years, and I'm surprised. But well, everything was very different, with the nails, as they say, we handed out the flyers at traffic lights because there was practically no scene, you know what I mean? Speaking specifically about here in Bogotá, everything was happening on 19th Street, in the booths before those ONLY shopping centers, uh, they were booths on the street where cassettes were recorded, etc., etc., right? And it was like the meeting point, uh, let's say, for the few metalheads who were there; we were very young. And back then, nothing, well, there we spread the word that we were going to play, and at that time, we basically played with La Pestilencia and Darkness, because we were the only three bands, so more or less established. Obviously, there were one or two, but they were bands that lasted a year and uh, disappeared, etc., they never recorded anything. We were like the three most consistent, let's say, representatives, let's say, of the heavy metal genre in Bogotá, because at that time Dilson lived in Bogotá. So, uh, nothing, well, here we are 38 years later.

Andrea: Very good. Ah, in 1991 you recorded Más allá de la demencia, the demo. What was it like recording and moving in that underground scene?

Just like you were telling me, uh, that was like the beginning or we're just getting started. How was it?

Jorge: Well, uh, yeah, as you say, it was recorded in '91. Hey, well, what, like, when we formed Neurosis and we started playing covers to, like, get together, etc., etc. Shortly after, in '87, we started composing our own songs. So, those were the songs, let's say, that were left on that Más allá de la demencia that came out as a cassette, then as a demo, because, uh, like, it still has 10 songs, 10, 11 songs. So, uh, nothing, we recorded it here in Bogotá at Audio 8 Studios, very well-known at the time, sound engineer Ricardo Rodríguez, a person who had quite a bit of experience with rock, uh, and we all recorded it at the same time, in other words, in blocks. So, it wasn't recorded channel by channel, let's say like it's done nowadays, uh, but rather, I mean, Bull Metal de Medellín came, who was the drummer for Masacre, right? And we rehearsed for five days with him and that was it, uh, we recorded, recorded all together. Obviously, the musician who knows about this matter I'm talking about, what the recording is, well, if there's a mistake, then you have to start the song over from the beginning, so that just one person can screw it up, let's say, although yes, obviously, uh, it's a very, very crude recording, very archaic. The console had eight or 16 channels, well, but in any case, few channels, right? As I'm telling you, I mean, all of us as a group, and then we recorded the cassettes ourselves from a master that each of us had at home on those double-cassette recorders.

So, we copied, right? So we copied cassette by cassette, meaning, we had the covers made on a lithograph, and we made photocopies that said side A, side B. We would cut that out and glue it with Colbon, you know what I mean? To the cassette. And we would assemble the whole cassette, right? And from there, we would take the cassette to the stores on 19th Street that I mentioned before, right? The truth is, we, and what happens is that at that time, people only wanted to hear covers. Yeah. I mean, it was a daring move to make our own music, very different today.

So, nothing, well, we went to San Andresito, sorry, I went to San Andresito and bought boxes of TDK or Sankei 10-cassettes. So I bought three, four boxes. And I was recording all weekend, and on Monday, I'd go to the stores on 19th Street and leave them on consignment. We didn't really know if they were going to sell or not, but fortunately, people started to like them, and they started to sell. Imagine, and they started to

sell. Uh, so, well, as they ran out, we would supply the cassettes to the stores on 19th Street, and that's how we did it.

Andrea: Wow. Well, in 95, Verdun 1916 came out and they arrived on MTV Latino. What changed for the band after that, uh, let me rephrase my question? What changed for the band after that?

Jorge: Yes, of course. Well, in 93, there was a reshuffle in the band, because it's worth clarifying that during these first 6 years, I played bass in the band. Uh, and in '93 I switched to guitar. Francisco Nieto left the band and I took over composing because Mas Allá de la Demencia, I was in charge of writing the lyrics and Francisco the music, and so, uh, I wanted to start composing. So that year I sold the bass and bought a guitar, and I started composing in '93 with Arley. Uh, we continued with Arley and got a bassist and a drummer. Camilo Rodríguez on bass and Edgar Sarmiento on drums, who had a band at the time called Infected. And the four of us started working and started putting together my compositions, which were the, uh, songs that were left on Verdun 1916. And what changed? Well, the sound changed a lot, for example. Yes, because, I mean, Verdun was already a more professional production, I already had more experience. I put a lot of money into buying a good pedal, which was Metalzone. I think it was the first one that arrived in Colombia, an MG81 for guitar. And we recorded this through Audiovisión channels, which is still the best recording studio in Colombia.

The thing is, it's obviously very expensive. Today, there are three studios up north in Bogotá. At that time, there were two, and recording was very expensive. It took us a lot of effort to get the money. The other day we were asking artificial intelligence—excuse me— imagine this: at that time, recording Verdun—that was 50 hours of recording, and it cost 40,000 pesos an hour in '94, and that, converted to today's pesos, is 19 million pesos. That's how much it cost to record Verdun: 19 million. I mean, ask today to a band. Hey, we need 19 million to record, let's see how they're going to react, if you know what I mean. I'd have to pawn everything.

So, I mean, what we did was a feat, and it was like the alignment of the planets, so to speak, that Juan José Virviescas, who was the sound engineer and co-producer with me on Verdún, I met him again because I had met Juan José in '87, at the beginning of '87, when I had just arrived in Colombia. It's worth clarifying that I wasn't raised in Colombia but in Madrid, Spain. And I came to Colombia when I was 17 to give him music. I had gotten into guitar lessons in a garage there in Cedritos, and that's where I met Juan José, but then we lost touch. Uh, it turns out that during the time we lost contact, he had gone to France to study sound engineering. And where did I meet him again? Once Andrés Duran invited us to 88.9 for an interview and when I joined 88.9 I saw Juan José after about 4 or 5 years and that was when he told us because Arley and I already had the songs and were looking for a recording studio, but Juan José told us, "I'm working in an amazing studio called Audiovisión, why don't you come and visit? And we went, we were shocked and said, well, this is where we definitely have to record and more like eh with Juan José as an engineer."

And that's where the odyssey of getting the money began. And between me and I, we organized some small concerts and things like that to try to collect money, but it was not much, etcetera, etcetera, until finally, uh, there was a loan from Arley's family , we were able to complete the money and we went in to record and all the recording sessions lasted two weeks. Recording from around 10 p.m. until 4 a.m., that is, we recorded at night.

And then, to keep the answer short, once we had it recorded and everything, it turns out that Andrés Durán and Juan José, along with another partner, wanted to set up a record label. So, they proposed that we publish the album, which we obviously agreed to because we didn't have a penny left. Where were we going to get the money to press an album? I mean, we had nothing. Before, we were in debt, right? And that was it. Well, the agreement was made with them, and in March of '95, the album came out, and obviously, it had a strong impact, let's say, on the Colombian scene and opened the doors for us to play in other cities, and of course, the sound was totally different. In fact, I would dare say, without sounding self-centered, but the sound of Verdun is the real thing. I mean, that started, let's say, for me, the sound of metal in Colombia, because Medellín came with a particular sound that today they call ultrametal. Yes. But all those bands sounded very similar, but none of them sounded international. On the other hand, the Verdun, I mean, you hear it and it does sound more international. Yes, that depends on the taste of each musician, well, let's say how they want to sound, right? Or if it can sound how you want to sound, I mean, how they would like to sound, because that's another thing. It's not that I want to sound like that; I'm going to achieve it, no. It's that's where the difficulty lies, right? Everyone wants to sound perfect, but from there you have to, uh, be creative, try many things, equipment, etc. The musician's way of playing also influences this, which is something the public doesn't know. It's not just about equipment and all that, you know what I mean? I mean, it's like, I don't know, if you put a Mercedes engine in a Renault 4, well, I mean, you know what I mean? Or you don't know how to drive.

Uh, so Verdun had an impact, let's say, because of its sound, and I always wanted, well, an international sound, I wasn't worried about doing something original like that.

Andrea: Very well. And Karma from '96 was distributed in several countries. How would you describe that important album?

Jorge: Well, Karma was a big change, let's say, from Verdun to Karma. Let's say, I had been greatly influenced by what Juan José and Andrés told me as a composer, right? That, I mean, you have to do something more modern, right? not So tupa tupa. You have to build a denser sound and such, prom style. Yeah. Uh, then, well, well, I tried, I mean, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't put a problem. You understand me? So I lowered the tuning. I lowered the tuning, I mean, Karma is C sharp, eh the Verdun is in E, those who know about music there is a tone and a half. So, obviously it changes a lot, just because of that. And there was a change because eh Arley e eh well left the band and Andrés González came in, who was the vocalist of Karma. Yes, no, the, I mean, the music is different, but let's say at the time, at that time I was going through a lot of depression and things and I was in treatment. So, the album is quite, despite the fact that it has songs that are aggressive and some aggressive riffs have many parts, or for example Pain doesn't listen to the song or the intro of Karma and it's very sad, it's nostalgic, eh, and it's a eh it's very existentialist, yes, it talked like many parts of suicide and all that, yes, because that was what I was experiencing at that time. Eh, so some people liked it, others didn't, eh, okay, that's valid, you know what I mean? But nowadays, let's say it's been almost 30 years because Karma, so next year it'll be 30 years since it was released and we have to see if we're going to do something about that. Eh, I mean, an album came out with a unique sound, you know what I mean? I mean, you can listen to any Colombian band and none of them sound like Karma. You see? I value that album, eh, that's why, you know? I mean, it's not a copy of a foreign band or anything. I mean, there's something there that's original in many parts. Yeah, because you can't say it's 100% original. Here, nobody is reinventing the wheel these days when you're playing metal. You know what I mean? Because Well, it's that everything was already done by Black Sabbath and so on, etc., etc. and everything, you understand? But let's say it's not something that resembles, let's say, anything else from here. So I give it that value. And there are many who like Karma more than Verdun, because they did like that sound and they go more for that vibe of, let's say, metal. Eh, one thing is what one hears on the album and another thing is, let's say, those live songs are absolutely brutal, without saying that the album is brutal, but I've always said, Neurosis is a concert band, Neurosis is a live band because it's like people listen to the CD just as well and all, I mean, yes, you understand me, but the thing is that live it's as if that were multiplied by 10 and that's what people are experiencing, I mean, what people have experienced with this Verdun show and that's why many have been impacted. I mean, how is it possible that songs that were released 30 years ago sound the way we're playing them in 2025? We have to give value, let's say, to what was ahead of us, let's say, that album and Karma, let's say, you know what I mean? In terms of composition, to RIFS, to everything, I mean, the same musicians who have seen us play it, they say, "Fuck, this is incredible." Yeah. So, I think that we have to give value to those two albums, but there was a big change from Verd to Karma and it was mixed in the United States, etc., and then it was released.

Andrea: And in 2016 you recorded Alamein and in 2017 you reissued Más allá de la Demencia with Viuda Negra. Greetings to Viuda Negra who isn't always watching us. Uh, why did you return to Vinyl and why did you return with that label? I like to know the bands' preferences, their stories, etc.

Jorge: Yes. Uh, well, of course, between, I mean, Karma to Alamein, well, Odas en concierto, which was live, we have, it's worth clarifying, three live albums recorded live. Uh, an EP of a trial EP from 2001, uh, Subversivos Espirituales, which is a full-length uh released in 2005. And yes, well, with Alamein, well, it's a powerful album too, loaded with RIFs and different themes. There's an environmentalist song, for example, called Arpones en lo alto. Uh, there's a song about the battle, specifically the Alamein of the World War II battle in North Africa between Montgomery and Romel. Uh, because I've always liked war, and especially the history of World War II. Uh, El Código 666, about which a video was made, is a pretty brutal tune. Uh, and yes, uh, that's when Andrés Moreno from Viud Negra Music released it. I think it's been reissued once, I mean, two editions have come out, right? And now Andrés, as we've been chatting these days, really likes that album, he's very fond of it, and he was toying with the idea of releasing it on vinyl, which I totally agree with. I'd love to see it on vinyl. Uh, and yes, the first vinyl was released by Andrés with Viuda Negra, uh, which was Verdun. uh, the Red vinyl came out, it was the first edition. It's already been reissued, uh, like, two more times, and uh, Living Metal, which is another label I work with, has also reissued it. Uh, and well, we already know that vinyl records are mostly for collectors, very loyal followers of the band, right? Because they're collector's items, right? Uh, a lot of people obviously have the record, but if they like vinyl records, they'll buy them too. Yes. Uh, then Viuda Negra too. Andrés released Más allá de la Demencia also, uh,

on vinyl, and that was the only edition. Right now, we're also talking to him, planning for it to come out, to see if everything goes well, at the beginning of next year. I'd also love to see it come out again. We're trying to make it a picture album because we don't have any picture albums in Neurosis' discography, but only in one color. Then Andrés released Karma on yellow vinyl. I was pleased. I wanted to see it on yellow vinyl. Well, it was a hit. Well, invest more money, but I'm very grateful. Let's just say I was pleased with the aesthetics of the album; I care about those things, obviously. So, nothing, we'll see, wait until the vinyl thing, the main one, and the more of the dementia can be seriously finalized. Hopefully on Picture with Viuda Negra.

Andrea: Very good. Hey, everyone's waiting. What was it, Jorge? What was your all-time favorite performance with Neurosis?

Jorge: Oh, no, well imagine, uh, I think uh, this year's, I mean, the Brutal Fest we had here in Bogotá on July 12th, here at the Lourdes Music Hall, uh, which is good for people to know about, for me it's the national record for attendance at a metal concert, because there were 1200 people paying, it wasn't free, mind you, 1,200 people paying an average of 140,000 for admission. I mean, when has that been seen here in Colombia? Yeah, so if I'm not mistaken, that must be the record, you know what I mean? And we played three bands, no more, Masacre, Witchrap, and Neurosis. It wasn't a 15-band festival. Yes. Uh, demonstrating why and why I emphasize this, I mean, not out of ego or anything like that, but to say, "Our Colombian scene is worth a lot, you understand? And here things can be done. And yes, there is public support, but you have to offer a good product. Yes, you understand me. I mean, uh, I mean, there are bands that do bring people, you understand? I mean, and not just for free events, I mean, paid events too, uh, there must be that support and people showed up en masse that day and that concert was incredible because we have a show set up with uh with the screens, we have an opening speech that is an introduction to Verdun and that gives the band's presentation more mystique. The people, the people are not stupid. People realize that one has worked and that one has planned it very well, you understand me? And fortunately, well, they have liked, uh, as they say, everything that we planned, Yeah? Special, between Diego Diego Melo, the vocalist, and me. Yeah, it's not just about going out and playing. You have to put on a show, because if not, people would be better off staying home listening to the album, you know what I mean? So, you have to offer attractive things so that people, like, uh, uh, come. And for me, that's been one of my best concerts, but a month later we had the one in Pereira, the one for social gatherings, which was, uh, great, great. I played so comfortably, we played so comfortably, the sound was very good. We had an excellent sound engineer that I brought from Manizales, Jimmy Grajales. Excellent.

So, I had some favorite concerts, which were Calit in 2001 when we played with Internal Suffering, uh, Altavoz in 2006, Medellín, it was the first version of Altavoz. It was great for us. Well, of course, I can't discard that one. The Altavoz in 2006. It was incredible. We played with the best bands in Medellín, with Masacre, with Tenebrarum, with Atanator, etc., and we truly gave a memorable show. Alr. I'll stick with those four. Excuse me. Cali 2001 with Internal Suffering 2006, the first edition of Altavoz, the Brutal Fest, which was this year on July 7th, in Bogotá, and Convivencia Rock in Pereira, Saturday, August 23rd. Those four concerts have been the four best concerts of my life. Yeah. Very well. And it's great that they were recent.

Andrea: Yes. By the way, throughout your career, what important changes have you seen in Colombian metal? Uh, we talked a little about that, but tell me.

Jorge: Well, uh, there are good things and bad things, let's say, the good things. Uh, well, there's greater quality in the musicians, there's greater quality in the productions, right? I mean, let's say, there's more professionalism, No? So, that's a change, because it's obvious that there's a lot of talent here in Colombia, right? Uh, sometimes the Colombian public doesn't appreciate it, as I said in the press conference, that the most difficult thing in Colombia is for a Colombian to believe in another Colombian. Yes, because Latinos, uh, let's say, well, I consider myself 100% Latino, my father was Scottish, etc., but Latinos tend to be very subservient to foreigners. Yes, and that has to be said because it's a reality. I mean, here they bring you any NN band from Germany or the United States, bands that failed there, let's be honest. Yes. And here they sell them like they're the latest guaracha. But people go because they're foreigners. But if those same bands had Colombian passports, they wouldn't bring anyone. And that's what happens, people are fed up with passports and all that. So, that's why I say, the hardest thing is for a Latino to believe in another Latino, because the mindset, the mentality here is that everything from abroad is better than everything from here. And that's something that, I mean, I still haven't met the first journalist who dared to say at a festival where international metal bands and national bands were mixed, who dared to say, "This national band sounded better than the one from abroad." And I've seen it because I've been a witness, and many times national bands have sounded better than those from abroad. Yes, but it's like the person's mind blocks out the truth. That's a disease. I was talking to Diego about that. There's a disease, there's a syndrome where the person, let's say, always denies something, right? No matter how many arguments or who sees it in front of them, they'll always deny it. Anyway, it's my personal opinion, and I'll get back to my point. I mean, this isn't ego, this is reality. We have to value the great talent that exists here in our country. Yes. And, I mean, between us all, we've forged a scene that is a powerhouse today. Yes. I mean, how many foreign bands do an international tour and skip Colombia? Very few. Yes, because it's a very attractive place that generates a lot of money. Don't you understand? But that didn't happen yesterday. That happened because, uh, many musicians, even many before me and those of my generation, were concerned about building a rock culture in our country. Do you understand me? Yes. And so now we see where, where, where all this is going, right? So it's something that has cost a lot, and that's why I value it. Yes, I value the Colombian scene. Uh, and what I was saying, I mean, everything has improved a lot, the productions, etc., etc., really good musicians, etc. That's on the positive side. On the bad side, maybe there's a lack of originality. You know what I mean? Because there's a lot of copying of the copy, I mean, there are a lot of things copied from Scandinavian bands, there's no originality. I mean, yes, I mean, you see the band and it sounds brutal, but you ask yourself, is there anything new here or original, authentic, let's say, from this band, or is it similar to At The Gates in Sweden? What are the lyrics about? Nobody knows, you know what I mean? Nobody really knows. The public isn't demanding of lyrics. I mean, whatever they shout at you is fine, you see? But I come from another school where lyrics were important because there's a message, there must be a message. You understand me? Uh, and that's perhaps what's missing. You understand me? That many bands sound the same as each other, and what I was talking about with Diego, I mean, many bands are going as if it were a play, right? I mean, it's all makeup, masks, hoodies, uh, to give it, right?, a sense of evil and everything, because that attracts people and all, right? But, I mean, the most important thing is the music. I mean, that's the most important thing. Yeah, not the looks, the music. Uh, so because, look, the three bands that played and brought 1,200 people, none of us wore makeup. Ah, that's great. We don't even put on masks or anything. We go straight to the audience, you understand? Because we have good lyrics, we have good music, and that's what matters. Eh, but nowadays I see that, let's say, as phew, it's more and more, it's more, but there are bands that originally started, let's say, putting on their masks and everything and it's already part of an identity, let's say, of themselves. I'll give an example, Cuentos de los Hermanos Grind. They use masks and everything, but they are masks that are in accordance with their philosophy as a band. Yeah, you understand me. I mean, it's not something copied, for me it's something original of theirs. So, I'm not saying that everyone who wears masks, etc., but sometimes I see that It's become like a fad. Yes. Then, it stops being authentic.

Yes. I mean, it's not just for authenticity and all that, but now there are some buzzwords that I don't really like. Staging. Staging. Now, our approach is to bet on the scene, I mean, as if they were creating something new. No, sir, you know what I mean? No, no, it's not something new, it's something copied because, well, there it is. Well, then we go to Alice Cooper and we go to Kiss and the first ones who wore makeup, etc., etc. Yes. Or the bands from Scandinavia, Norway, Sweden, etc. You know what I mean? And many of them look the same and everything. Yes, and there's no difference in the music either, not even in the sound. So, in that sense, I see it as, let's say, a lack of originality. So, to summarize, I'd say there's a lot of quality in musicians, but I think we need to worry more about, let's say, originality, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's basically what we were talking about, right? The things you've seen throughout your career and how you've seen metal.

Andrea: Yeah, I don't know if I've already asked this question, but I'm going to ask it. What advice or suggestions would you give to people starting a band today?

Jorge: Think carefully about what they're getting into. Yeah, you understand because this is a hard, hard, hard road. I mean, if you really want to do something well, you have to keep in mind that you're going to have to sacrifice things in your personal life. I mean, I think that, like, bands, let's say, uh, that have built a name and such, we've sacrificed a lot of things in our personal lives to dedicate ourselves to music, to the Metal. Yeah, any musician who's really serious about this knows this, right? I mean, because it seems there are a lot of musicians who do it as a hobby, because, I don't know, it's like my trend now, etc. They last two or five years there, then they disappear, get an office job, and then they proudly say on Facebook, "I was a metalhead." Well, uh, I've been through that, haven't I? I mean, I'm ahead of you, I've matured, etc. Uh, so, of course, you have to do it right, you have to sacrifice things, you have to have discipline, a lot of discipline, right?

Andrea: That's why I don't have a band. I'm not disciplined, at least not when it comes to rehearsals. Not me.

Jorge: Yeah. I mean, for me, you have to have a lot of discipline, right? And you have to see a band as a business. Yes. I mean, it's fine for those who want to have a club of friends and all that to get drunk and all that, that's fine. I, well, let's say, I respect that. That's never been my vision of a band. My vision of the band has always been business-like, you understand? I mean, I'm very demanding with others, with the other band members and with myself. Obviously, you have to lead by example. Yes. But let's just say you have to be very, very organized, and above all, there's one thing: you have to have talent. This isn't just about desire. Yes, for me, it's a combination of several factors because, I mean, if there's no talent—you can put all your desire into it, you can have all the money in the world, you can be a multimillionaire to put that into the band— nothing's ever going to happen because if you don't have talent and you don't have the talent to create music that really reaches people, that captivates them, I mean, they're never going to buy your record, they're never going to go to more than one concert in a row, etc., etc., etc. So, that's something important, uh, that people sometimes don't take into account. You have to have talent, you have to have the gift of creativity. Hm. What is it about bands like Metallica, Slayer, Hipocrisy, or X Kreator? I mean, they're creative. I mean, they're spectacular musicians, really, you know what I mean? They've created great songs. It wasn't by chance; they were born with that gift. You know what I mean? So, it's not just about desire and money. I mean, it's a combination of many factors. Likewise, if you have talent but lack discipline, life will take you. I've met many like that over my almost 40-year career. I met many musicians 20, 25 years ago, super talented on the guitar and on the drums, but they never had discipline. And they were weak-willed. Yes. They let themselves get carried away by drugs, by bad influences. They ended up badly. They never did anything. The environment often makes it easier, right? Yes, you have to. No, it's that you have to have character to stand up and say, "No, I don't like that or I'm not going to do it." Even if they tell you off. I mean, it doesn't matter. Yes, you see? But you have to have character in this. And look... nowadays nobody remembers them, do you understand me? I mean, they're people who were taken by life, as they say, but they were very talented.

So it's a combination of many, uh, factors that one must meet, well, that you have to really apply to achieve, well, excel, do something serious, and uh, build an audience.

Andrea: Hm. Um, tell me what's coming up next for Neurosis. You were saying that you'll probably celebrate the 30th anniversary of the other album, or do you have something special to celebrate the 35th anniversary?

Jorge: Yes. Well, look, uh, well, I'm going to give you a huge scoop,

Andrea: and I like scoops.

Jorge: Well, look, I haven't even published this or anything. We're going to re-record the whole Verdun. Okay, this idea came to me because I have to take advantage, or we have to take advantage of the fact that we have a lineup that doesn't know the entire album anymore, you see? And as I said before, well, uh, I mean, talking about recordings from 30 years ago, they have mistakes, and I'm the composer of that album, and one, I mean, I never listen to Verdun, you know what I mean? Because there are so many mistakes, so I feel bad, you know? Because as a perfectionist, I always say, I could have done this better, maybe I should have changed this part, etc., etc.

Yes. And obviously, we're talking about technology, let's say, 30 years later. I want to hear that album played well with a metronome. We don't play with a metronome. Nobody played with a metronome back then. I mean, there weren't any. I think the ones that existed were orchestral. Imagine that. So, we're going to record the whole Verdun thing, properly, as they say. Uh, and I think this is going to happen in October, okay? So, that's a project, let's say, to close the Verdun cycle a bit.

Yes, because I don't like people thinking that Neurosis is only Verdun. I'll give you a fact. Neurosis has 63 songs. 11 are Verdun, so there are 50 or so more songs that I composed. You know what I mean? And there are some really good songs within those 50 or so. Uh, what happens is that people get married, they become very attached to the era, my teenage years, and then the music takes them, and yes, you know what I mean? That's why they're very reluctant, let's say, to listen to more recent stuff, but that doesn't take away from the quality, or at least I don't see it that way.

For me, I've made much better songs than Verdun, eh, but the idea is to leave that album well recorded, eh, so well, we'll do that from now until the end of the year. It's practically a done deal. We're already having an important meeting tomorrow to get the money for the recording, etc., etc., and see if it's released on vinyl, eh, and on CD something special, a new cover. Obviously, we have to think about the title Verdun Revisited or something like that, who knows, eh, and well, that's a plan.

We want to go to Mexico to play next year, we also want to go to Spain. Eh, so we have that there, that's pending, as they say. Hm. Maybe in December we'll go to Quito, Ecuador to play a single event. They'll confirm next week. Ah, and well, see here within Colombia to see what other events, uh, maybe they can come up, right? Obviously, we're aiming for big events where they can pay us what we deserve, you know? I mean, not just going to play for a flask of beer and all that, but, I mean, really, I mean, we need a sound engineer, we need a lighting engineer, we need good guarantees, you know? So, that they are well-organized events.

Yes. So, that's what we're aiming for. Sometimes it's better to play less, but play well, right? Than to have 10 mediocre events in a row, right? So, not because of the fever of playing and all that. And obviously we're thinking that this year we have to change the repertoire. Yes, I mean, close the Verdun chapter a bit. Obviously we'd be playing some Verdun songs, but we have to mix them with the most recent songs, with songs from Alamein. Today we were in a meeting with Diego planning that a bit.

Subversivos Espirituales's songs, I mean, there are a lot of really, really brutal songs about neurosis and no no and well, I don't think we'll do it, I mean, no, now the 30 years of karma and we're going to play the whole karma, no no I don't think we're going to do that, but we want to have like two repertoires for next year, one of two hours and one of one hour and all the songs have to be different, I mean, we have to have at least 30 songs prepared so that people can sometimes choose the repertoires they want to hear in each city.

Andrea: Very good, very good. Ah, I think we're out of time, but what a great interview we had today. I always ask a last question. Hey, tell me, this is something non-metal, what books or movies, non-metal references would you recommend to the Metal Detector people?

Jorge: Well, books, I think the book 1984 by George Orwell. Yes. Hm. I read it when I was a teenager. Um, the other time we were talking a little with Diego about that book because Diego is a great reader. Well, uh, something uh, but I don't, even though I've written a book, I mean, I don't sit down to read, read, read. I mean, you know what I mean. I read science articles, about this, everything. Yes. I mean, I do worry about reading these days, but it's not like I have 500 books there in my living room, you know?

Hm. I think that book, uh, well, I'm going to, I don't know, I really like it. People aren't going to like this and the metalhead is really mad at him. I like Paulo Coelho. Yes, I like it. I like Paulo Coelho. I read The Alchemist. I really liked that book, and it was during a time in my life—around 2003, that I read it, and it meant a lot to me because of what I was going through, let's say, at that time. I really liked that book. I was very interested in his life. I mean, I found it very interesting that he was a rocker, he wrote lyrics for rock bands in Brazil.

Uh, I mean, sometimes I think we shouldn't judge people. Because I saw a meme on Facebook, if you know what I mean, then, uh, nothing. I mean, there are a lot of people who criticize people, I mean, for example, writers, but they haven't even read a book in a week. I mean, it happens a lot, doesn't it? Or they criticize a band and they haven't even listened to it. Yes. I mean, for example, I have a lot of critics who say, "No, it's just that Neurosis is only Verdun, it's the only good thing." But I bet you that guy who said that, like, he's never listened to the rest of the albums, right?

So, that's it. So, I don't know, I liked The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, 1984 by George Orwell, and about the Latin American one. I liked it a lot. In school, they forced me to read The City and the Dogs by Mario Vargas. Uh, I have very good memories of that book.

Andrea: I liked it. Yes, yes. It's good that they forced us. I like that book too.

My husband also likes Paulo Coelho. It's okay, right? It's no problem. I also really like, uh, all those books you read when you're alone. Word when you're alone.

Well, maybe we can add something else or something new to this interview before we end it, something that may have suddenly slipped our minds.

Jorge: pleased with the interview. Thanks for the questions, I liked them. I had a very pleasant time with you, huh? Big hello to the listeners, to Andrés Moreno of Viuda Negra Music. I hope things go well for you with the subterranea fest, which I believe is being organized in partnership with Andrés Castro, an old friend of mine. Uh, I wasn't invited either, by the way, but oh well, noted. Uh, I know they're busy, I wish them the best at the festival.

Uh, and thanks to all our followers, I really do, because um, I mean, we can do something, we can do these things, give our best. Uh, it's thanks to them who support us by buying our records, our t-shirts, and attending the concerts. Really, thank you very much, and let's hope for many years to come. More to keep creating music, because we also have to create new things, and we're not only going to be playing songs that were already released years ago, but I have a pending task here. Yeah, look, I'll show you. Well, here it is, right? I'm creating things.

Yeah, uh, nothing, thank you very much, and a hug.

Andrea: Okay, thank you very much for this time you've given, Metal Detector, and I'll see you on the scene.

Jorge: Of course. Well, a hug.

Andrea: A hug.

Jorge: Ciao.